Wednesday, October 20, 2010
RR #2 Dating
Bailey looked at courtship and dating from the perspective of power and economic relationships. What about love, affection, physical chemistry, or even simple pleasure in companionship? What norms and expectations are there for dating? Discuss what you learned from our class discussion and expand on those ideas.
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People seem to think that men should do the asking out of dates, but women control everything else. I think that it should be equal. Men shouldn't have to pay for everything and women shouldn't plan where they go or what they do. In my personal experiences it's equal for everything, but mainly we're just there because we enjoy each others company.
ReplyDeleteDating is complex, I believe either male of emale can have the power role in dating. But i do admit that a majority of the time it is women. But just because a guy is taking a girl out trying to impress her soes not mean she is not tring to impress him too.
ReplyDeleteDating has come a long ways from courting but that courting concept is still there. You take a girl out on date hoping to she likes you, for that chemistry, and you date hoping things in your relationship move foward, maybe even to marriage. The major difference today is that dating does not involve supervision. You still bring eachother home to meet eachothers parent, hoping for their approval. The similarities are there dating and courting are different but also have undeniable similarities.
My opinion is that women hold the power of decision. Bailey commented that "men became the host and assumed the control that came with that position" (247). She is talking about the movment from the privacy of the woman's home to the public scene, and to the man paying for the outing. This i disagree with because not every woman can be won over with expense. The man has to find cracks in the woman's fortifications in order to persuade the woman. The man takes the role of a rogue having to use backalleys and overlooked weaknesses in order to enter a stronghold. The man has to use tricks and facades, to a degree, to even get a chance to ask the woman out. Granted, some women are easier to court, for lack of a better term, because their fortifications are easier to breach. In my relations, I've had no trouble asking someone out. The reason being that the friend had to set us up. This is like haveing the front door open and a red carpet rolled out for me. BUt because it was her inititive and not mine. She had set a standerd that i couldn't reach and she ended the relationship. This shows that, even though i tried, she wasn't happy with her choice and decided to stop it.
ReplyDeleteDating is like a crazy roller-coaster that requires a lot of careful attention. It’s very easy for both people in the relationship to get hurt and with all the expectations put on a dating relationship it’s hard to avoid. It seems that the power is placed primarily on women while the men fight for the woman’s attention. It’s easy to see that it’s hard for both people to make an effort in a relationship but it’s ridiculous that the man be expected to make the first move, plan a date, and then judge his actions from there.
ReplyDeleteA relationship should be about equality on both ends. It should be about the quality time each person gets to spend with one another and if that’s the soul reason for dating then there should be no issue with power or inequality. Most relationships that work out long term start half-and-half in the very beginning, for example, one person pays for a date one time and another pays for the date the next time.
The date should be about trying to connect on a deeper level to hopefully work toward a long term relationship; after all that is the ultimate goal of dating in the end, isn’t it? It should be about discovering what you like in a person and how you interact with that person in a dating environment. This can all be achieved anywhere or by doing anything as long as your with the person you care most about.
Addressing the power balance in a date, I profoundly believe women hold ALL of the power in this arena. While the guy may have the privilege to make plans and pay, this is not a form of power. Women, upon allowing a guy to select such things, are given the innate power to approve and critique the choice of date, which is the ultimate source of power in this situation. The women is given permission to judge the male, accept or decline romantic advances, control the pacing/conversation, as well as propose/accept the invitation of a second date. This long list of feminine-exclusive powers are just a few of the reasons why women primarily hold the power in dating. Males subordinate their equality and personal dominance for the main purpose of impressing the female and appealing to her in a way that gives her a good idea of the male's character or compatibility with her.
ReplyDeleteIt is not definitive that women hold all of the power in a relationship. I do not believe you can cast one gender as the universal dominant gender (at least once the relationship becomes exclusive), but rather that dominance differs from relationship to relationship. Rather than power because of your economic stature, the power comes from love.
ReplyDeleteContrary to what Ty said, "Women, upon allowing a guy to select such things, are given the innate power to approve and critique the choice of date, which is the ultimate source of power in this situation," in my experiences, both men and women plan dates, and the one that must "approve and critique" doesn't just say yes because it was exactly what they wanted to do, but rather that they love the other, and simply enjoy spending time together.
It is not definitive that women hold all of the power in a relationship. I do not believe you can cast one gender as the universal dominant gender (at least once the relationship becomes exclusive), but rather that dominance differs from relationship to relationship. Rather than power because of your economic stature, the power comes from love.
ReplyDeleteContrary to what Ty said, "Women, upon allowing a guy to select such things, are given the innate power to approve and critique the choice of date, which is the ultimate source of power in this situation," in my experiences, both men and women plan dates, and the one that must "approve and critique" doesn't just say yes because it was exactly what they wanted to do, but rather that they love the other, and simply enjoy spending time together.
Personally, I think dating is simply a game. Ever since it changed from courtship in the 20s, it seems it only has the feeling of it being for mere entertainment. Yes, it essentially is about finding someone to marry perhaps, but with all the emotion that humans posess how are we supposed express it without putting it into something/someone you care about?
ReplyDeleteAs far as how the system works between a girl and a boy, I honestly believe that your typical date pretty much surrounds the lady.
Usually the man is the one who pays for dinner, flowers, and so on. And it's up to the woman to basically decide if she is impressed or not.
It's a brutal concept. Sorry boys.
Thats not to say that women never take that roll, as the impresser rather than the empressee. And in gay/lesbian relationships obviously there is one who wears the pants in the relationship and one who doesnt.
Most relationships are very mutual, there isnt one dominating over the other completely, for they are there for eachother to enjoy eachother's company.
BUT initally the men are trying to impress the ladies, and the ladies get the final yes or no.
Dating to me is supposed to be equal; not one person in the relationship should do everything. For me, even if the common expectation is for the man to ask the woman out, I think women should take an approach to asking. I don’t feel like the man should do all the work to initiate a relationship. Dates, flowers, and other presents should be distributed equally with both partners, and each partner should participate equally.
ReplyDeleteEven though love usually makes two people come together, power becomes an underlying ideal in relationship. Because this ideal is underlying, in most cases the power of a particular partner will come naturally, versus the idea of gender. So when a female asks a male out, that action is not because of her gender, but because of the power she has. In a homosexual, one will often become more dominant, expressing it by their physical traits or actions they choose. The common thought that gender defines a relationship it wrong, even though most will say it has everything to do with gender.
As for men assuming women have the complete power, no matter what the man’s actions say or do, to me is false. I think that for a second date to take place, it takes both people to be happy and willing to return. Women are not the only ones who try to get out of a bad date, and men are not the only ones to not return a phone call. If one person is not satisfied with the partnership or date, both should work to change that feeling. When one plans a date, that date should not just be directed or constructed in favor of the other. “It takes two to tango” I always say. Relationships, dates or anything further down the road should be equal; each partner should put in effort to balance and enhance each other’s feelings.
In my opinion, dating should be the front of equality that represents a balance in power between the partners, with hopes that the dating world they are in will increase to something more. Dating is not gender related; it is about the equality and balance performed by each partner creating an equal based relationship.
Dating is a definition that many people do not agree on. Everyone has a different idea on what they think the definition is. Some see it as a game they can play, some see it as a half-hearted attempt at commitment, and others see it as a serious relationship.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I see dating as a serious relationship. It isn't a game I play, and it not a half-hearted attempt at a commitment. Granted, I don't believe that if you are dating and in a serious relationship that you are going to get married to that person. It could be that you really enjoy spending time with that person, and you are dedicated to that one relationship.
The definition for dating will always be subject to interpretation. It always has been, and it always will be.
Eugene E. Raycraft
ReplyDeleteBailey’s paper looked at the expectations of dating, power and economic relationships between men and women. However, she did not talk about love, affection, or companionship between men and women. I think that these are the reasons men and women date, not for power or economic reasons. The expectations on dating drastically vary on people and there beliefs, but I do believe that society has put the expectation of sex or sexual favors in the coerce of dating.
The idea that many girls are having a friend call them halfway through the date in order to evade it somehow if it's going bad appalls me. I'm unsure of what I believe on the whole power struggle. On one hand, the guys prepare and pay for the date (usually). On the other, the girl gets the opportunity to enjoy the guys company because HE asked her. The girl is expected to look her best for the date, and ultimately it's up to the guy to ask her on another date. Granted, the girl get's the decision to decline the opportunity. So it's hard to say whether or the girl has more power or not, guys are trying to impress the girls, but even if the girl isn't ALREADY interested, she attempts to impress him also. Generally if a girl says yes, she is at least a little interested and would like to learn more. Generally. The guy probably feels like she has all of the power, or maybe he doesn't feel that way, but the power to ask the girl on another date ultimately lies in the guys hands. So honestly I feel as though there is an equal amount of power, yet in certain situations it's not equal.
ReplyDeletewell, I realized in the discussion that I was clearly out of date when it comes to dating.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a huge fan of dating for marriage, and rather dating appeals to me as trial and error, and really finding out what intrigues you, whether it's to find out something you like, or to even discover new interests. I guess, you could say that regular dating, as apposed to courtship dating is more fun.
I can tell I'm clearly out of date when it comes to social norms, so I don't know if I can answer this. I've been reading a lot of Jane Austin lately, so I can get an idea that back in the old days that love did matter but really you should do more courtship dating, or else you'll be screwed financially, because your families wealth would not go to women, even if they were the only heir. Women had as much power back then as they do now I think. or at least it seems like women do.
I don't know. I think serious dating in high school is really dumb.
I think boys and girls are equal. I do not think that guys should always pay. I think which ever person is financially set and doesn't mind paying should pay. Dating is different in different towns. Here in lapine if you go and hang out with someone of the opposite sex that is considered a date in alot of peoples minds. I disagree. I have alot of guy friends and when I go out and eat with one of them and see some one, they attomatically assume it is a date.
ReplyDeleteI think you should get to know someone before you go out on a date with them. You should not go on a date hoping to get to know them that way. You should hang out with them in groups or talk on the phone before you hang out with them one on one.
I do not think that there should be set norms for dating. You should hang out with who you want and date who you want.
In our class discussion, some students stated that the woman has the power in a relationship. I think this is not true. In any relationship, escpecially at the beginning, the power should be shared. I think that it is shared in ways that aren't exactly status quo, though. If the man invites a woman to go on a date and she goes, it's not necessary that the man pays. But if he offers you accept, if he asks for a second date you can oblige or deny, but a woman can also ask for the second date. In the early stages of a relationship power is shared in normal ways of which i stated above. But when the relationship takes a deeper turn and each person is willing to commit to a stronger relationship that is when the power shifts. It shifts not in the way of inequality though. The power simply shifts from different things. When the relationship has moved further because of intense feelings or strong emotions, I personally, would want the man as the head. He would be over the relationship in the ways of protection and security. Decisions should always be made together as a couple. In the words of the movie, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", the man is the head, but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants. Of course every relationship, date, man and woman is very different and each thing varies increasingly. Overall, I think that power should not be that pushing of a matter in a relationship. In a working one, things shift in to place by themselves and it can always be discussed. But any relationship that is not based on a strong love or like is, frankly, going to be a stinker.
ReplyDeleteI'll begin by saying I agree with Eric's response. Every relationship depends on the personalities involved. In modern society you cannot place a norm on dating. I'm sure most automatically assume the man has the power, Alpha-male mentality, or whatever. But that's obviously out dated. In our discussion I heard a lot of opinions giving the man the power to ask the women, and leaving it to the lady to decide if they're going to progress as a couple. Honestly, the man has just as much responsibility as the woman to decide. If he's not diggin' the vibes it shouldn't continue. And vice versa.
ReplyDeleteI believe the power lies in both participants. Whether they're a traditional male and female couple, or a same sex couple. However, I agree with Wendy when she brought the idea of the man specializing in protection and security. The female also has the ability to specialize in her own area as well, like assessing emotional stability.
I disagree with Kat's statement, "I think serious dating in high school is really dumb." Not to place an attack on her opinion, but just to use it as a contrasting example to my own beliefs. Young adults are completely capable of discerning love from infatuation, and sustaining a monogamous, successful relationship. Once you find some one who truly loves you, and you them, there is no other experience close to it. Not to go all cheese ball on you guys, but it's worth the effort and stress. The whole, "I'd rather have loved and lost than not love at all" shpeal.
To sum up my response, I believe both partners share equal power, but where and what they decide is up to the couple. Love and passion are necessary for a relationship to succeed. One cannot place a norm on the characteristics of dating since we all have different guide lines and expectations.
Humans aren’t that much different then animals when it comes to finding a mate. In most species, the male is in charge of courting the female, and it is up to the female to assess the males potential as a mate. The more desirable a male is, income, looks, personality, the more likely that a female will choose him. Not only does this give the female almost complete control, it also makes the male change themselves to become more desirable. Everyone says that dating is equal, but it doesn’t work like that. Men have a subconscious desire to pursue a mate, and women want to be pursued/desired. Therefore, it is solely in the hands of the women to determine if it is a relationship worth pursuing.
ReplyDeleteI think location plays an important role in what we call dating. Based on most relationships in LaPine, asking someone out simply means to ask to be boyfriend or girlfriend. Because there are so few places in LaPine to take a date out, the dating definition changes completely. According to a friend I have in California, dating for her is actually going out. This may be caused by more places to actually go but I was wondering what other factors or if location does play a role in dating.
ReplyDeleteLove Jake.
I think the reason people cant come to an agreement on the subject of dating is because there is no way to describe dating and love. It changes depending on the person; the atmosphere; the connections amongst boys and girls after that first kiss. like Eric said men aren't dominant in the pre relationship part. But couldn't there be a man who isn't just wanting the girl but wanting the relationship? Or Wendy saying a guy can ask a girl out on a date but so can a girl; or the guy isn't obliged to pay but if he offers of course she'll accept.what if the girl offered but the man insisted? Like Eugene saying the reason men and women date are because of love and companionship but Kyleigh says that dating is a game and for mere entertainment.
ReplyDeleteNo one can really explain it. But when u feel it yourself, its never a mutual feeling with another couple. Its your own feeling of Love, being liked, being used, being happy, being depressed; too many feelings that are all your own, once one goes through it.
All im saying is love is a mystery; cupids arrow will find its way to you and when it does, all the world changes around you in either a good or bad way; which way is up to the one falling for love.
sorry it took so long to post
For any relationship to work there needs to be some sort of balance of power. However, men and women are not necessarily equal in this area. I think that in a relationship there should be open communication that allows couples to make decisions together. They may actually agree with one another and find out they are on the same page. Maybe they disagree but can compromise. My view about dating and marriage relationships is that the guy has the final say. Not that he gets to dictate everything but that he will make choices that are what he feels is best for the family, not just himself. The woman in the relationship should definitely voice her opinion but in the end should stand by her boyfriend/husband. To a point men and women should both have the opportunity to make their input in the relationship but in the end the man is the head of the household.
ReplyDelete